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Board Admin
Status: Hidden
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1571
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 #5 Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:24 pm |
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I'm just surprised that he's even in the game at all. His implementation looks cool, anyway.
There has been discussion about Bomberman being a playable character here and in other venues recently so I figure I'll abuse this thread to add some thoughts I had. They're pretty rough and by no means a moveset, but there are over three decades of games from which to pull inspiration for him, so the argument I've seen around that he "wouldn't work" doesn't make sense when other, far less iconic characters, coming from games in which they maybe had one attack, have been included for years.
Abilities from Bomberman games that he could use for Smash Brothers:
* Bomb. Sets a bomb on the ground. Can be picked up and thrown. If hit, it slides forward. They are solid like they are in the original games, and can stack or bounce upon each other.
* Bomb (spawns in hand).
* Bomb Pump (Baku). Use with held bomb.
* Line Bomb. Sets a row of 5 bombs with smaller firepower.
* Bomber Throw (SB4). Pick up, carry, and throw other characters.
* Bomber Push (SB4). His Smash Attack. He slides forward when using it.
* Bomber Jet (Hero). He thrusts upwards, spewing flames below.
* Rolling Bomb (Hero). He throws a spreadshot of four tiny bombs that explode on contact.
* Land Mine (SB5). What it says on the tin.
* Remote Bomb. He's using them as an assist, but Land Mines might be better for control.
* Poison Bomb (Quest). Smaller blast, inflicts a Skull effect (effects could be things like fast, slow, low hit power, etc. modified for Smash).
* Bouncing Bomb. Thrown forward and bounces around; can be hit away but cannot be grabbed.
* Kick. Possibly a finishing combo, sends the opponent sliding away.
* Dash Shoes (Quest; also general Speed Up appearance). Move quickly forward when grounded, but with reduced friction, can then attack with a tackle (also Quest, GB, GB 2).
* Pommy. Whips him out and warps.
* Wing. Believe it or not, it's a fairly prevalent power-up, appearing in the likes of Fantacy Race, Pocket Bomberman, Quest, and so on. Bomber Jet would be better if I had to pick, though.
* Column Bomb (Saturn Bomberman Fight!!). Places a stack of three bombs instantly in front of him, creating a barrier.
* Elemental Bombs. I see that Razon had some interesting ideas in the chat when I was skimming through, so I don't feel bad about just leaving this here as it is. It speaks for itself.
Melee abilities could emphasize his Punch and Kick. In hand-to-hand combat, he could be issue slower but more powerful attacks, fitting in line with his general gimmick of timing.
Final Smash could utilize the Dangerous Bomb, the Bomber Shuttle, a Moto-Bomber, etc. He even could have MAX jump in to help with his Plasma Bombs, or even have him transform into a huge Machine Bomber (VB Panic Bomber) and shoot explosive lasers. Lots of options to start with.
I put this together in maybe about 10-15 minutes so I'm sure there are lots of more options. |
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Bomberjack
Status: Hidden
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 691
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| #6 Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:08 pm |
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| the argument I've seen around that he "wouldn't work" |
Someone please powerslam a copy of DreamMix TV World Fighters in that argument's face. Please. |
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Bomberman
Status: Hidden
Joined: 14 Feb 2010
Posts: 386
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| #7 Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:14 pm |
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I spared some thoughts about Bomberman in Smash a little bit ago that I could share but I haven't caught up on the chat, so maybe it's been mentioned. My thoughts involved more general design directions rather than specific abilities.
The Bombs for instance could blow up in either more round hitboxes or have + explosions like in traditional games, and whether or not these abilities are upgradable, either through stats or a charge ability like pumping. It's a pretty big distinction right out the gate that defines how to handle a lot of other abilities.
There's also the question of how Bombs will detonate. Traditionally, there's a timer, but I believe there are abilities or games where it's possible to have a Bomb detonate on impact (although the only one that comes to mind is Hero atm). There's also the possibility of a timer but if Bombs are thrown with enough force they detonate prematurely. This also is a big fundamental change to the overall design of the character.
Another big thought about Bomberman is his ability to manipulate. A general theme in Bomberman is his ability to manipulate Bombs once they're already placed with Kick, Punch, and Glove, but there are abilities that go beyond that. For example, in Super Bomberman 4 there's the Push ability that allows him to push other player characters around, and Bomberman also has the ability to lift and throw other player characters. In B64 and TSA, there's the prerequisite of stunning enemies first, but that also opens up another option in and of itself, which is the ability to stun enemies or at least create a knockback by using the bombs as a ranged weapon.
Then of course, what should Bomberman's general range of effectiveness be. If there is any focus on upgrading his abilities through stat ups during the match, then that also means his range of effectiveness could be more dynamic as he could, at the very least, upgrade his speed as apart of the core stat up options.
There is the thought of what sort of Bomb types to use, as there's a lot of different approaches. There's the 7 Elementals in TSA but also fewer Elementals in other games like Generation, and there's the B64 approach of just having Red Bombs as an upgrade, or maybe a more classic approach where Bomb types aren't elemental based but like Power Bomb, Pierce Bomb, etc. It could also be a custom selection of Bomb types, like maybe just Fire, Ice, and Wind so you have damage, slow/freeze debuffing, and movement manipulation to keep things more focused.
Bomberman does have a charabom theme that could be reflected, but I wouldn't bother with that if I were designing him. I believe it deviates the focus a bit too much when you already can have a lot more themes that are both more core to Bomberman and also unique to him.
I think that's all of the thoughts I spared. I probably won't really contribute more as tbh I don't really see the point to spend the time, as this post already took a fair bit of time to write, more than I want to spend on pure speculation and daydreaming anyway. But there you go, some food for thought I guess.
| the argument I've seen around that he "wouldn't work" |
Someone please powerslam a copy of DreamMix TV World Fighters in that argument's face. Please. |
DreamMix TV World Fighters only has like 3 moves and it doesn't really compare to that of Smash. Now, if you don't come up with a full moveset for Bomberman right this very instant as you read this message, I'm afraid Bomberman is going to be permanently disqualified from Smash.
Aaannd time's up.
Sorry Bomberman, I guess you can't make it. Maybe next universe.
/sarcasm |
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Last edited by BlueFire4101 on Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:26 pm |
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Bomberdude
Status: Offline
Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Posts: 151
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| #9 Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:23 am |
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| It's just his SBR model being reused.
But it is a good looking model nonetheless! |
It's hard to tell because you rarely see the models in SBR up-close that often.
Kinda makes you wish for another sprawling adventure game with the same model.  |
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Bombertrainee
Status: Offline
Joined: 08 Jun 2016
Posts: 31
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| #12 Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:46 am |
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Good to see that Sakurai recognized him. I find it interesting that Sakurai made a big deal out of his AT, about as much as when he introduced Daisy as an echo clone of Peach. He’s the highest profile AT outside arguably Nintendogs who were really only relevant for one generation. Hopefully this paved way for the long sought after playable position in future games. I also believe that Bomberman fans need to take advantage of the long gap between games to build a grassroots movement to get him in, even if it takes multiple games.
I envision him as a trap character in that he strategically places bombs where his opponents don’t expect him. I also think he could ultilize Rooey somewhere in his move set.
Here’s a lovely comic someone made describing the AT situation.
https://twitter.com/JamesTheReggie/status/1007547775079182336 |
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Bombertrainee
Status: Offline
Joined: 08 Jun 2016
Posts: 31
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| #14 Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:50 pm |
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| I think he got spotlight because he's the only third party Assist Trophy so far who isn't a secondary character from a series that's already repped. Unless there's another one I forgot... | Fair point, but it's still noteworthy. Sakurai could have decided not to include him at all.
No there isn't another third-party with only an AT. There's Rayman who has a trophy but that's not the same thing.
This is the most attention we've gotten in a long time, even more than when Super Bomberman R got announced. |
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