When that 3DS is released, i'll be down there getting one with the Starfox and Paper Mario games

Hoping its not called Starfox 64, the N64 version was named Lylat Wars here in Europe and it sounds so much better

I said it once and I'll say it again; I'm disappointed in Nintendo's current direction. Or maybe I should say the video game industry's current direction. And I am, of course, talking about gimmicks.

Seems like they believe the more wilder a gimmick, the better the sales. Instead of making, I dunno, good fun games? Ever since Nintendo did it, everyone else is following up on the whole motion sensor thing (with the PS3's wand thing (don't remember the name, and I don't really care) and the 360's Natal project (don't care if I got that the other way around either)).

I mean, really, a 3D game console? Do we really need the graphics to pop out like in those iMax theater movies? Is that supposed to make my games more "fun"? Am I going to have to wear silly 3D glasses just to see what's going in my game?[/satire]

I admit, I'm slightly interested in the console (but definitely not because of the 3D stuff). But really, I've had just about enough with the silly gimmicks.

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The Local Video Gaming Lunatic

Recent stuff I'm into:

Watching: A Certain Scientific Railgun (ep.14, stalled), Hoshi no Kirby (ep. 71, stalled), Nazo No Kanojo X (ep. 8), Acchi Kocchi (ep. 8)
Reading: nothing

The 3D was designed without glasses, this is possible to manipulate without a sensor on someones head because everyone will hold the console at the same distance just about. I wouldn't say it was a gimmick, its not the only way forward but it presents a suitable development from the first DS.

What i would mention is that i haven't seen the 3D working, only 2D screenshots and i like the look of the games that i see. The 3DS will be fine

That fact that Ocarina of Time is being remade for the 3DS didn't wow you enough I take it? You seemed to have payed no attention to the list of games currently in developement for that system, as the 3DS has better games than the old DS and has pretty much everygame that should've been made for the old DS as well, such as Paper Mario, Star Fox 64 remake, but mostly the Ocarina of Time remake. ANd besides if it wasn't for things being gimmicky consoles would've died as soon as the 7th gen started anyways, as if it wasn't for the DS and Wii we wouldn't be here as we are today. Not only that but when you said

it clearly shows you have almost no idea about what the 3DS is, as the 3D for the 3DS DOES NOT require any goofy glasses AT ALL. That's also why alot of developers are making games for the 3DS to begin with.

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a 3d'd F-Zero has pretty awesome potential

If they make new features to enhance gaming you people will just whine about it being gimmicky.

If they DON'T make new features to enhance gaming (and stick to the same old formula) you people will just whine about it either being 'more of the same', a rehash, a beefed up version of the previous installment, or any combination of the three.

What makes it so bad is that the same people who complain about the first clause are often the very same people who complain about the latter.

How do you expect them to keep costumers happy if they don't try new things out with their games/consoles? You think rehashing the same old formula will keep people content with their products? Again, There's just as many people complaining about that as the gimmicks complaints.

Really, the mindset your post is one of the main reasons most gaming companies (especially Nintendo) probably don't even bother to listen to the gamers most of the time anymore. It's hard to make a 'good fun game' in this day and age because we gamers are so goddamn picky, naive, and whiny about them.

I know, right? Freaking threadmonkeys, why can't they stick to what they know best and stop trying to critique video games.

But in all seriousness, I don't really know so much about how much something is a "gimmick" or not, with this new stuff. I mean, stuff like ROB the robot and the Power Glove (not the one that lets you throw bombs) were gimmicks, but to be honest I haven't played a lot of Wii-specific games that use the remote with its full functionality, so I can't really give any good insight into this discussion.

I do know, however, that I don't really mind when games are "rehash[ed], beefed up versions of [their] previous installment[s]"... I'm a firm believer in innovation. You don't really need to make new methods of input in order to make a game that is still fresh and entertaining.

So I guess I'm sort of on both sides here? I don't even know, I just sort of made this post in order to poke fun at Blue's (understandable but hilarious) typo, and then got wrapped up in voicing my opinion on the subject.

Huge blob of text alert. None of the following is meant to be disrespectful to those quoted. I just find that the best way to express myself is to be blunt. You've been warned.


Guess you don't know my stance on Zelda games, but I'll just get right to the point. Ocarina of Time is one of the most overrated games I've ever played. Played it once and I still didn't see what was so great about it. I also fail to see how that's supposed to be relevant to my stance on the 3DS.


That whole sentence is purely a matter of opinion. You shouldn't speak of such things as fact. Not to mention that this thing was only announced, what, a couple of days ago? I'd take things with a grain of salt at this point if I were you.

The only games I was aware of that would interest me is the new Resident Evil for it and possibly Snake Eater if that's going to be more then just a tech demo. I could quite frankly care less about N64 remakes. There are already other means of playing most of those titles in question. Besides, I'd generally much rather be playing games on a real console then on a portable console.


lol You're highly exaggerating. Consoles certainly wouldn't be "dead" if it weren't for gimmicks. How else do you explain how the 360 and the PS3 are still doing well? Certainly not because of gimmicks, that's for sure.


And I clearly left [/satire] at the end of my sentence. You know, to indicate how ridiculous the 3D idea is. But you clearly left it out, and probably missed the satire part altogether. I guess the internet is serious business after all. :P


Sorry, but I highly disagree with this. In my eyes, 3D projection on a console is not a improvement to gameplay; it's a gimmick. Nothing more, nothing less.

Also, I'm actually one of the few gamers who'd be more then happy to see more new games for old consoles, so I don't believe "new features to enhance gaming" are a big issue for me. It's when companies begin to rely on gimmicks to sell themselves is when I start to have a problem.


I didn't say anything like that in my post. I don't care if companies try to add new things to games, but when they start adding silly unneeded stuff like 3D projection and motion sensor into every kind of game imaginable, that's when I draw the line. I fail to see how something like that could provide entertainment. Motion sensor being built into any kind of game isn't fun or innovative, it's flat out annoying and usually thrown in just to take advantage of the console's main gimmick, even if it has no place in that kind of game (like say puzzle games or RPGs or beat 'em up games to name a few). The 3D thing would probably give me a headache after a while too, don't sound like a whole lot of fun to me.


It's exactly because they don't put the effort into making "good fun games" that I'm complaining. Most game companies don't put any effort into games anymore, it's why you see so many generic 1st person shooter games or third person shooter games with no depth. It's what sells. They could careless about whether it's good or if it's a bombshell. They just want to see the money come in. It's also why certain franchises have been pretty much reduced to cash cows.

The Wii hardly ever produces any games that I would deem "good" or "fun" either. Sorry if I'm not into the games that it's so simple your grandma could play it, but that's at least what 80% of that console's library consists of. Of the 3-4 years I've had the thing, I only played about 10 games for it and I only plan on getting one or two more. I mostly use it to play Gamecube games these days.

Maybe I am just being picky, naive, and whiny; but you know what, that's still no excuse to rely on gimmicks rather then putting the effort into making good fun games.

TL;DR

I disagree entirely. 3D projection is nothing more then a gimmick in my eyes.

Edit: Fixed a silly error. Moving on.

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The Local Video Gaming Lunatic

Recent stuff I'm into:

Watching: A Certain Scientific Railgun (ep.14, stalled), Hoshi no Kirby (ep. 71, stalled), Nazo No Kanojo X (ep. 8), Acchi Kocchi (ep. 8)
Reading: nothing

I agree, totally. For anyone who doesn't agree, see the Virtual Boy. For those who still don't understand, see Panic Bomber (VB). Almost all of the games in the Virtual Boy's (unbelievably small) library aren't even 3D games. They don't even need the "virtual reality experience" that the Virtual Boy was supposed to provide. Heck, look at the unreleased Bomberman title - it still had nothing to do with virtual reality. So what was the Virtual Boy even trying to accomplish? It marketed itself with a gimmick that was supposed to attract gamers and sell more.

So the 3DS. Sure, it looks cool. Sure, it could make for some interesting and fun games, if used well. But does every new portable Nintendo game need this technology? No. That's when it becomes a gimmick.

360 sold nearly 40 million and PS3 sold nearly 30 million last I checked, but the Wii's new decision of motion controls allowed it to sell nearly 70 million, putting the Wii in the lead EASILY. If it wasn't for the motion controls the 360 would be the best selling console.

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And as you can see, the other two consoles are clearly not "dead," despite having no gimmicks, which was my point.

_________________
The Local Video Gaming Lunatic

Recent stuff I'm into:

Watching: A Certain Scientific Railgun (ep.14, stalled), Hoshi no Kirby (ep. 71, stalled), Nazo No Kanojo X (ep. 8), Acchi Kocchi (ep. 8)
Reading: nothing

So tell me, what exactly would you consider a "gimmick" and what would you consider an "improvement" to gameplay? The definition between the two differs greatly between the entire gamer community; so great and so loosely used that it isn't even taken them seriously anymore.



This whole paragraph is completely opinionated. Just because you don't like them doesn't automatically make it bad for everyone else. You also have to remember that the range of consumers has expanded, it's not just hardcore gamers anymore they have appease to.

Again, what exactly would you consider a "gimmick" and what would you consider an "improvement" to gameplay? The two terms get slapped around so much it not even clear anymore.

BTW, If the 3DS's 3D projection isn't your cup of tea, you can simply turn it down/off. The PSX being 3D and revolving around new concepts didn't stop it from making it a great system; I doubt a similar approach would anywhere near as bad as you claim if even at all. They push graphics everytime a new gen console is made/announced, this isn't even anything new. It's basically the Blu-Ray/HDD argument all over again.



You ignored my whole point, if they do in fact put all their effort into making 'good fun games', there will be just as many people complaining about it being a 'rehash' as they would if they built around on a gimmick. In this day and age, it is extremely difficult to accomplish that because people are so goddamn picky and critical about the final product.

They don't put effort into the games? Do you even know a thing about programming? Or about deadlines? Or about Executive Meddling? Or ultimately making a product aimed at some of the most unpleasable consumer base out there? While I don't know what truly goes on inside the developer's studios nor do I intend to defend their products, I highly doubt they're just lolly-gagging around their desktops for Lulz and money.

Really, it seems that your whole complaints boil down to a 'Causal vs Hardcore' gamers debate. Catering to the more casual is better market for them not only because there's a lot more of them, but because they won't make a 6 page essay about how their game sucks, simply because they didn't make it his way, every time they release a new game.

Me? I couldn't care less; if I think a game is good, I'll buy it. Otherwise I won't bother or I'll just flash cart it.


I didn't realize all of the 3DS games required the use of the 3D-effect features in order to not be gimmicky. I guess the PS3 Blu-ray and the 360's HDD drives and graphics are also gimmicks since not every one of their games needed that technology. Thanks for informing me!

See this is exactly what I meant about the term 'gimmick' being thrown so loosely around.

It's hard to explain what I feel is a gimmick and what's an improvement to gameplay. I think this definition from Dictionary.com best describes my feelings regarding gimmicks.


As for what I feel an "improvement to gameplay" is, it's more so just simple things like adding an extra button or two, or the addition of a control stick. So I guess better input devices is, in my opinion anyway, an improvement to gameplay. Also having a character be able to do more actions (which kind of goes in hand with better input devices) is what I would call an improvement. Take this statement as you will.


Again, I didn't say anything like "I hate it so everyone else must hate it too". I just don't see how 3D projection can be considered a real improvement to gameplay.

Also, I'm aware of that. Nintendo made that part perfectly clear at one of their prior E3s by basically saying "you guys aren't our target audience anymore." Looking at their console's library is also proof enough.


I already left my answer to this so I'll just ask you this instead; Since I've given you my definitions, why don't you give me yours?


If you can turn off 3D projection, then good. I don't need to complain. However, I would like to know where you got this info from. From what I've seen, it's made out so that it isn't a choice whether it's on or off.

I don't see much of a resemblance with your example for the PSX and 3DS. The PSX was made when the other major players were working with 3D graphics already, so it's not like Sony was doing anything new regarding that. They were going with the flow. I'll admit that the 3DS is trying something new, but I just don't see how 3D projection will contribute to the gameplay experience positively.

I'm aware that they push the graphical capabilities for their next games. I just don't see how 3D projection would contribute to that, if at all. All it'd be doing is making the graphics appear like it's jumping off the screen. It wouldn't make it look any more real. If anything, it'd be more of a personal reminder that it isn't real. But I suppose this is all opinionated too.


Whoever said that a "good fun game" has to be a rehash? Where'd you get that notion that all good games must be made in a certain way? I sure didn't say anything like that. I think that if a group actually put their full effort into it, they could make any sort of fun, unique, and original game if they so choose to. But you don't see that all that much these days. Companies tend to make games that they know will sell.


Actually, I have done some very bare bones programing thanks to vocational school. I know it isn't exactly fun or pleasant. But if you honestly believe some of these companies give it their all in the development of games (like, say, Sonic Team with new Sonic games), then I'm not sure if there's anything I can really say about that. There are undeniably some companies that do put in a solid effort in their games, but not all of them.

But anyhow. Fact of the matter is, the entire video game industry is a business, and as of late it behaves like one. As long as they get money, they probably don't care if people liked the product in the end. People like it? Good for them. People dislike it? As long as the dough comes in, who cares? As long as it's somewhat playable (regardless of whether the gameplay's done to death or not) and it makes then cash, then their work is done. The few one's who actually do consider their fans' opinions are the only ones who actually somewhat care about their fan base in the first place.


Wasn't aware that complaining about what I would deem a useless feature boils down to a "Casual vs Hardcore" gamer debate. Cool.

But seriously though, if this 3DS thing actually does the 3D projection thing well, then I'll proceed to shove my foot in my mouth. But that was never my point to begin with. My whole point is that video game companies, as of late, have been relying too much on gimmicks rather then making solid games. It's almost as if they feel that as long as the gimmick's in, the game will be fun regardless of whether the game actually is.

_________________
The Local Video Gaming Lunatic

Recent stuff I'm into:

Watching: A Certain Scientific Railgun (ep.14, stalled), Hoshi no Kirby (ep. 71, stalled), Nazo No Kanojo X (ep. 8), Acchi Kocchi (ep. 8)
Reading: nothing

Sorry bro, but you're comparing apples to plantains here (not even oranges). There's a big difference between making higher quality graphics and making games with "3D projection". That's not changing the quality, that's changing the visual medium entirely. This is why I brought up the Virtual Boy as an example.

But really it all depends on how they do it.


It might work something like this, but this is just a stab in the dark. I can see it changing the gameplay in some cases. If they did do this, it could be interesting to see on some games. Again, we'll just have to wait and see, I guess.

Why are we calling it 3d projection again? It's not projecting anything more so then any liquid crystal display does. It's just two separate images, with a little trick to block out the other picture from one of your eyes. I suppose it's supposed to look projected (or embossed), but it's not really projection by any standard definition that I can think of.

You can't blame companies for making casual games and stuff that will sell, as it's gotten more pricey now-a-days to produce on these HD consoles. That's why you don't see the level of creativity like you did on the dreamcast, chances and risk is accompanied by great loss if they want to experiment with something original and it doesn't do good now.

As for the 3D projection, yes they did say that it could be turned on and off. I think that 3D like that if done right could help more immerse you in the experience of it, it certainly isn't meant to change the gameplay aspect of it.

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"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they're not entitled to their own facts."

Guess I'm not the only person who thinks the dreamcast had a lot of amazingly creative games, and that's dieing out (especially if you ignore very independent games). I'm a retro gamer, and all these retro title imaginings are great, but to be honest, I'd rather have some great new ideas.

That is kind of neat. I can see how'd that would work for thinking games like Ace Attorney or something. But I wouldn't want every game to have a gameplay feature like that though. Could you imagine having to do that for, say, Mario? Also, if that's going to be how it would work, I'm not sure how one would be able to really play a game with it on while on the go.


I hear the Dreamcast has some awesome homebrew games (not that I ever played any of 'em). Even after it jumped out of the official console race, it's legacy is still strong, huh?


I understand that, but it's still no real reason to rely almost entirely on a gimmick. That's pretty much what I've been arguing about this whole time.


Where'd you get this from? E3? Not that I don't believe you, but I'd rather hear/read what was said regarding that.

_________________
The Local Video Gaming Lunatic

Recent stuff I'm into:

Watching: A Certain Scientific Railgun (ep.14, stalled), Hoshi no Kirby (ep. 71, stalled), Nazo No Kanojo X (ep. 8), Acchi Kocchi (ep. 8)
Reading: nothing

They've said that though, not sure where exactly. There is a depth slider on the side to change how the 3d projects, you can turn that all the way down to 2d. The screen is going to work the same way of course, there will still be 2 images to hit your eyes, and they'll still be blocked out the same way, but with the two images being exactly the same, it is very much 2d.

ha ha wow. You guys are really going to town in here huh?

Wish I was my younger self and had something to contribute to this discussion, but my interest in new games has waned so much that I don't really care anymore.

Maybe I'll check something out that a friend or relative shows me after they have already acquired it but I'm probably not even going to give the system a look since there's just a lack of interest for me.

The only games I still buy are old games and the occasional new anime-styled game that looks interesting or a sequel to a series I've previously enjoyed that still has a good feel to it.

I've also taken an enjoyment for simpler shorter games these days. I enjoy shooters, puzzles and beat em ups more then ever cause i hardly ever have the motivation or time to devote to RPGs and longer type games. I hope my vigor for such things comes back some day cause I enjoyed playing those a lot.

As for what I'm looking forward to... There's really nothing right now. There's a few things I have a mild interest to check out later but nothing really captivating.

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