Warning, big ass post.


I don't disagree with this. I'm mostly trying to point out that he was only really added to make the game more colorful and give the player more options.


Whether it's a fighting game or a racing game or a party game or whatever wasn't my point. I'm just saying that, since it isn't played anything like the original games at all, I'd take the game's story very lightly and I wouldn't really consider what happens in these games as canon. If anything, I'd say that maybe what's revealed in the endings are canon, but not nessicarly the rest of the game itself.


I haven't played those games in a long time, so my apologies on missing those bits on the endings. Still, did we really need to know when Light decided to make X? Was it really nessicary to reveal that Proto Man has error that will eventually kill him? Did Wily have to tell Bass he was planning on making a robot even more powerful than him (Zero)? Not really. I'm just saying that most of the stuff that was revealed in this game was stuff that, by the time we officially got the game, it was stuff that fans of the series would generally already know of anyway.


No, but I don't think the games' plot made much of an impact on the MM storyline, if at all. I also doubt that a lot of Mega Man fans played it for the plot in the first place.


I'm not the biggest Zelda fan ever, so I wouldn't know much about these games. I already know that some Zelda games are indeed connected, but I also know that not all of them are (directly connected, I mean). If they all are trully connected as you say (I'm not dismissing what you say, you seem to know more then I do on this), then the connections these games do have isn't really apparent, which is probably why I simply think of them as not being connected (which, in a way, I am correct).


This pretty much wraps how I feel on the matter as well. I only started getting into this indepth conversation with him because I found this to be thoughtful, insightful, and amusing (in a good way).

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The Local Video Gaming Lunatic

Recent stuff I'm into:

Watching: A Certain Scientific Railgun (ep.14, stalled), Hoshi no Kirby (ep. 71, stalled), Nazo No Kanojo X (ep. 8), Acchi Kocchi (ep. 8)
Reading: nothing

I'd say there's quite a big difference between two games in which Megaman fights Wily and his robots and two in which he challenges them to soccer and racing.
Even so, while Soccer's plot was limited to an intro sequence having no ending and no backstory for any of the characters (and thus making it inconsequential concerning storyline and canon), Battle and Chase is quite a different matter. In Battle & Chase each character has motives to be in the race and each have their own ending. Some of these endings are even referenced in the biography cards collected in Megaman & Bass, which would indicate the game is canon. Also it's worth noting that Battle & Chase had a considerably larger amount of dialogue in the Japanese version. The English release cut out two supporting characters entirely (Plum and Rippot/Report).


You'll agree that I'm quite into this stuff right? Then isn't it reasonable to believe that I would have heard it if Capcom's official storyline guides threw the Power games into the non-canon bunch together with Marvel VS. Capcom and Cannon Spike? I'm pretty sure I would know.

Well, currently the only things we were disagreeing about was whether the Power games are canon and if a return of Duo is "crazy talk" or not (which I think is funny since this is a series that introduced robots from space and provided a scientific explanation for ghosts).
If Soniti is fed up with it, I'm okay with dropping the subject.


And I honestly don't see why. It's not like the regular games are uber-realistic and this one makes no sense in that context. Megaman has always been about a robot that can respawn by picking up replicas of his own head. Why would skipping the stages and keeping only the boss fights matter towards whether the game is canon or not?

Ah well, in the end it's not really up to us. Capcom has never marked these games as non-canon (unlike others I already mentioned).


No problem ^_^


Maybe not but it helps rule out the idea that Bass stole the plans for X in MM7, it emphasizes the differences between the humanoid robots of the classic series (Megaman, Bass, the robot masters) and the Reploids, as well as explaining the reasoning behind Light's decision to create a robot capable of self determination (so that people like Wily could not reprogram them for evil).


Many fans want to know what happened to classic characters before the X series came along (see "Cataclysm theories"). So far Protoman is the only one to have something that can pass as a concrete answer in the form of that ending.


The point isn't that he's telling Bass, rather it is that we get to hear from Wily's mouth that he's started work on Zero and that other project.


Even if that was the case, the plot in those games still beats the heaten up MM4-5-6 soup we got in 9 and 10. That's all I'm saying.


Thought so, like I said, no problem  


I've been drawing connections between Zelda games since 1991, so yeah... I'm kind of into that too  
There are some that appear to be scarcely, if at all, connected to others. Case in point the Oracle games. Some people believe they are connected to ALttP and LA. Others believe it's LA alone and not ALttP and others still believe they are connected to LoZ and AoL. Them Oracle games are pretty crazy that way. In general the placement of most 2D games in relation to the other games in the series is up to debate, but there really is no reason to doubt their canon validity.


Yup, debating videogame storylines should be done responsibly and for fun only  
All too often people start large flamewars over subjects that should be solely for entertainment, unfortunately.

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Metroid: Other M - As in "There's the good Metroid games... we chose to do one of some Other Make altogether."

Now this is just absurd. Did Capcom seriously make what should've been a spin-off kart racing game canon? Am I suppose to go and assume that the Mario Kart games are all part of the Mario canon too, in that case? You know what, let's go the whole nine yards and make all of Mario sports games and Mario Partys canon as well!


I believe Regulus was just pointing out that they probably just made the game for the sake of making a Mega Man fighting game, then added the story to connect it to the rest of the franchise sometime during development, as an afterthought.


It's moreso the idea that Wily rebuilt his old robot masters in some kind of attempt to defeat Mega Man and pals that makes me question it's place in the series' story. As I believe I mentioned, it's not once mentioned anywhere in the game why Wily just rebuilt his old robots, rather then make/steal/bribed new ones like he usually does. You can also specifically choose what "sets" of Robot Masters you wanted to fight, but the story is still, more or less, the same regardless of what set you chose.

But yes, since Capcom deemed as officially part of the series story, then I guess it must be canon (although I personally can't fathom why, but that's just my opinion).


Well, that's cool and all, but I guess he not did consider that these "self aware" robots may want to go and harm other people just for the lulz.


That's just Proto Man though, it's never shown what happened to the rest of the characters. One can probably safely assume that they just reached their "expiration date" so to speak.


That's neat if you were a Japanese kid and Power Battle/Fighters just came out, but again fans should already know this by the time the game officially came over here.


If we are going to compare the MM series story to soup, I'd say that Power Battle/Fighters is a kind of chicken based soup, as is the rest of series, but it has a couple of croutons added in. In other words, it isn't all that different from the rest of 'em.


I didn't say that they aren't all connected. I just think it's reasonable to believe that not all of the games are directly connected (as in, it's apparent that it's connected to another game), since not many of them have obvious connections to the other games.

But this is a subject I don't have a lot of knowledge in, so I wouldn't know.


Yeah, as long as we avoid the "No, you're totally wrong!" thing and don't call each other names, then we should be fine.

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The Local Video Gaming Lunatic

Recent stuff I'm into:

Watching: A Certain Scientific Railgun (ep.14, stalled), Hoshi no Kirby (ep. 71, stalled), Nazo No Kanojo X (ep. 8), Acchi Kocchi (ep. 8)
Reading: nothing

You do realize that Waluigi exists almost uniquely through sport and party games, right?  
Mario and classic Megaman are two cartoonish zany series. I personally don't have a problem with having kart racing games as canon events in them.
Now if they were to try and make a MegamanX kart game canon... that would have me plug my hears and going "Nah-nah-nah-nah!" in the hope it goes away.

Besides with Mario we're talking about a series the main producer of which adamantly refuses to accept elaborate plots for the new games (seriously, Miyamoto has said in interviews that his staff will always try to come up with some new plot as to how Boweser wants to conquer the world and he always cuts it down to "a cake is used to bait Mario/Peach into a trap" or something equally simple).
Really he's been known to treat videogame plots in the same way one would those of porn ("the less the better").


Sadly, that probably can be said of most videogames. It has been officially stated that Skyward Sword will be the first Zelda game in which the plot was not developed last.


Au contraire! That's nothing new and not at all unexplained!
Wily's habit of putting his old robots back to work has been introduced by the Rockman World games on GameBoy. The first three only bother saying that Wily is using his old robots again, but the fourth actually reveals that the robots Megaman defeats are then put on display in a robot museum, and that's where Wily steals them back from.
We actually get to see the museum twice. The first time was in Megaman7, between the first and latter four robot masters. There Wily is shown stealing GutsMan who later on we fight in his fortress. In the background two more "capsules" can be seen to have been shattered and this is believed to have been foreshadowing for the appearence of CutMan and WoodMan in Megaman8 (Saturn version only, they didn't make the cut for the PS1 version).
The second time we see it, the robot museum serves as the introduction stage of Megaman & Bass. King goes there to steal two of Wily's robot masters from MM8 (TenguMan and AstroMan).
Oh and in case you want to argue against the GameBoy games being canon, I'll just say two words: Megaman Hunters!


That's true. Personally, I like to think that each of the starring characters took care of a different set of robots, but it's also possible that once Wily was defeated and had to retreat he called back the remaning ones.


I imagine he thought of that, but figured at worst there would be factions of free willed robots fighting just as there are factions of free willed humans. Rather he probably had not anticipated a virus sophisticate enough to still succesfully bend the free will of these robots. Or maybe he did and that's what the 30 years of tests on X were all about (so it'd be all Cain's fault for not making the reploids as reliable as X).
Either way, considering that by the time of the Zero series there is only one city left on a world otherwise unhinabitable for humans, I'd say things definitely did NOT work out for the best *lol*


Some people speculate that given how Power Fighters provides an explanation as to what becomes of Protoman, the Megaman-Bass ending should also be considered as indication that Megaman and Bass would eventually destroy one another. I don't really subscribe to that idea though.
As for expiration dates, Megaman9 shows that Megaman and Roll don't have any because the law establishing one for robots was passed after their creation (between 9 and the preceding game I think). That's why Light's most recent robots were being scrapped in it while Megaman and Roll remained active. By the end of the game, I think the law is revoked.


That is correct, yes. They all happen in the same universe (barring trips to parallel dimensions such as Majora's Mask) but some are pretty much standalone.

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Metroid: Other M - As in "There's the good Metroid games... we chose to do one of some Other Make altogether."

The thing is, with Mario, the games don't really need much of a story. The story is there simply to give the game some background, not at all unlike classic Mega Man. The games are really all about gameplay. If you wanted a Mario game with a somewhat more sophisticated plot, the Mario RPGs have a somewhat stronger plot (all of the Mario RPGs I have played are pretty good, as well).


I never had much of a chance at playing the old Gameboy ones and I always figured that most of them were just "retellings" of the games that the robot Masters originated. I do remember a robot museum in 7 and Mega Man and Bass though.

So... Who thought that putting powerful robots on display in a museum was a good idea?


I suppose that makes sense. Not every person likes to cause harm to others while others do like that kind of thing.

lol Yeah, things definitely did not work out for the humans. Even in the X games there were times when humans were forced underground because of pollution and stuff.


Seeing as Mega Man doesn't really like to destroy other robots, this seems unlikely. Mega Man only fights for peace. If he could, he'd probably try to achieve it some other way.
I think you took my "expiration dates" comment a bit too literally. Perhaps I should have just said that they "lived their lifespans" instead.

_________________
The Local Video Gaming Lunatic

Recent stuff I'm into:

Watching: A Certain Scientific Railgun (ep.14, stalled), Hoshi no Kirby (ep. 71, stalled), Nazo No Kanojo X (ep. 8), Acchi Kocchi (ep. 8)
Reading: nothing

I suppose so, but I'm rather bored with the basic "Bowser kidnapped Peach, go save her!" plot.
I liked how the older games would always try to introduce some new spin (like the Koopalings in Mario 3 or Bowser attempting to subdue Dinosaur Land instead of the Mushroom Kingdom in World).


The first one does basically sum up as "Wily is at it again" much like MM2, but it throws in the first Megaman Hunter, Enker.
The second one has a particularly weird plot, with Wily going into a peaceful future, kidnapping Megaman and turning him into Quint to fight against present Megaman. The third one has Wily trying to seize the world's energy resources and in the fourth he uses a signal to make robots go nuts all over the place.
The fifth one, as you may know, is completely original (both in terms of plot and enemies/stages).


Good question  


The Earth Crisis of X5 yeah. That was originally intended to be the reason things had gotten so bad in the Zero series. Then Capcom made more X games, ones in which the world was pretty much back to normal, so Inafune had to come up with the Cyber Elf Wars background in Zero 2 to explain the post apocalyptic setting. This is quite the pet peeve for me as well (Inafune was livid about it).


Ah, I see... well it's possible. We'd have to assume though that their durability was not even close to that of X and Zero. By the time of Command Mission they should be about a hundred years old, meaning that in the Zero series they are pluricentenaries.

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Metroid: Other M - As in "There's the good Metroid games... we chose to do one of some Other Make altogether."

It's still basically the same story though. And most people in general don't play Mario games for the story. I mean, what do you want for a story in a Mario game?


Again, that's because Capcom wanted more money to be printed, so they continued making X games even though Inafune wanted the series to end at X5. The more games they make, the harder it's going to be connect them all in a way that still makes sense.

_________________
The Local Video Gaming Lunatic

Recent stuff I'm into:

Watching: A Certain Scientific Railgun (ep.14, stalled), Hoshi no Kirby (ep. 71, stalled), Nazo No Kanojo X (ep. 8), Acchi Kocchi (ep. 8)
Reading: nothing

It is always more entertaining to play a game revolving around some adventure (as is the case of Mario) when it has a compelling story to boot, no matter how kiddy and simplicistic.
But it shouldn't be boring, which it could be by being too repetitive ("been there, done that") or too long in exposition (some people complain that the admittedly rather forced plot expositions in Galaxy were a chore. I didn't feel like that, but I can see why they would).

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Metroid: Other M - As in "There's the good Metroid games... we chose to do one of some Other Make altogether."

Well, sure, I can agree to this. I just always felt that, regarding Mario, the plot isn't meant to be taken very seriously and it serves mostly as the excuse of why Mario's on yet another adventure.

If you want a Mario game with a more serious plot, there are plenty of fangames out there. Mushroom Kingdom Fusion and it's sister game, Super Mario Fusion, look like they will be really good games when finished. Probably need a good computer to play 'em, though.

_________________
The Local Video Gaming Lunatic

Recent stuff I'm into:

Watching: A Certain Scientific Railgun (ep.14, stalled), Hoshi no Kirby (ep. 71, stalled), Nazo No Kanojo X (ep. 8), Acchi Kocchi (ep. 8)
Reading: nothing

Yeah, I'd just like some fresh excuses, ya know ;)

I'll try looking into those, thanks!

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Metroid: Other M - As in "There's the good Metroid games... we chose to do one of some Other Make altogether."