Yeah, glad to find out that the whole cyborg thing wasn't just an addition by English translators. I'm really impressed at how accurately they translated it! Everything's up to par, even the monsters' names (technically the Mini Bomber life-up is named Chibi Bomber and the yellow headphones guy's name is... well, I'm not sure). So yeah, makes the Max story as interesting as I thought it was as well.
I'm not sure what the humanizing of the Bomberman species is supposed to mean... I mean, I don't know if they were trying to move into having them as a species on their own world rather than robots, but keeping the same storyline and hoping nobody noticed or cared, or if it's just a stylistic change. After all, in Neo Bomberman you still see the regular Bombermen's visors shut off when they get blown up. And the intro to 64 TSA has Bomberman's visor shut off when he gets knocked unconscious and sucked into the black hole.
As for the name again... between the way it's written and the looks of the characters they're definately one of those N-Man Team sorts of things, you know where they all have different colors and specialties and even get into a combined mecha formation. If we shortened it to make it easier to say, it'd probably be most accurate as "_ Bomber 5", but that's just me. Unfortunately it turns out as one of those things that can be translated in multiple ways.
As I said, a question of ring and personal taste.
And oh, I forgot about the Neo Bomberman animation, or the TSA one for what matters, although I'm not a huge fan of TSA because of the little fanbase that like it not because of Bomberman, but because of all the deep characters and storyline. Anyway, I think it is a stylistic change coupled with ideas that got better, and perhaps the move from Earth to Bomber Planet was a mere idea that was modified.
Since I believe in "personal canon", unless proved, I prefer to believe that they increased in number and went to another planet, or perhaps modified Earth in some way, but I mostly choose believe that the stories of the Heinous Five and the Four Heavenly Bombers took place in Earth, and later ones in Bomber Planet. And now I got myself thinking about the original Bomberman game... what if it took place in a distant future, set on Earth, when the Bombermen were mass produced to work in the Bomb Factory, long after the original Bombermen left Earth in search of a new planet? Not entirely unlikely!
I have so much fun pondering about this kind of thing, even if 'tis useless.
I highly doubt they modified Earth to match themselves... I mean, look at all the land that would remove, that's sort of a thing that the bad guys would do (like renaming the Sears Tower, Mwa ha ha! ).
If by 4 Heavenly Bombers you mean the bad guys from Super Bomberman 4, well, that took place in the middle of space... Oh wait, I guess you do have a point, they had to be at SOME planet when they were going through time. Yeah, that was probably Earth.
Interesting theory about the first Bomberman game. Never thought of it that way!
I doubt so, too, especially because I believe all the games in the SNES series were placed close to each other, and for a planet to change like that millenia would be needed. And yes, I speak about the Four Heavenly Bombers. I did explain about their names in the old topic, didn't I? Bomber Shitennou, ties with Buddhism and Hindu culture, used in many media, etc.
The timelines indeed were from Earth, so if the manual mentions Planet Bomber, it would mean that said planet is very similar to Earth, and the retcon would become irrelevant and a mere cosmetic change, not unlikely Hudson likes to do.
[EDIT]: Just in case, here it goes again.
In regards to the original name of the Five Bomber Kings, it is loosely the "Four Heavenly Bombers" (ボンバー四天王), but with a much deeper meaning. Those last three are kanji for "Four Heavenly Kings" or "Four Devas", but more accurately, "Shitennou" ?E四天王, shi tenku ou. Thus, the literal translation would be "Bomber Four Heavenly Kings", but I much prefer to modify it since I think sticking to the original can result in quite awkward translations. Moving on, the Four Heavenly Kings are the four Buddhist deities who are believed to protect the four quarters of the world, and the term is frequently used outside of the Buddhist context to refer to any superb or famous quartet, although here in Bomberman, their appearance also possess details known to relate to Hindu-based works, such as Tenku Senki Shurato, and also similar color schemes. I can relate them to at least three other groups with that name in games and anime, too.
I'm not exactly sure if this is mentioned in the manual (didn't check yet), but I got the translations from the Japanese wiki, and info from there tends to be very accurate. Even if it is not, the design for the Bombers bears resemblance to similar works, so I risk that perhaps it was in the old site for SMB4 or in other manuals of games that use those characters (such as Bomberman Party Edition). The translation (Great Bomber and the Four Bomber Kings) also match this, culture and translation-wise, since the fifth member is usually a leader, superior in power, and is not present alongside the others. He does get introduced alone, doesn't he? The Elite Four in Pokémon are also called the Four Heavenly Kings in the original works, and the fifth member quite follows those rules.
Yeah, if you look at the second to last post on the first page of this topic, I translated Hammer Bomber's info and the name of the group, though I just stuck to Four Deva Bombers since "Shitennou" isn't a real translation. Seems to be a matter of preference again... I'd go with the official translation, but as you mentioned the Party Edition manual called them the Four Bomber Kings, but "King" is such a loose word that "Deva" or "Heavenly" are closer to the original meaning.
In any case Great Bomber is indeed introduced alone (Bomberman and Great Bomber on one page, then the Four Deva Bombers (with the title) on the other).
Actually, not preference, "Four Heavenly Kings" is the official translation and "Shitennou" is used to shorten the name, while "Deva" is a derivative name that actually has little relation to the deities 「 四天王 」 refer to. Not only that, but it should be "the Four Bomber Devas" if you want stick to that version, because "Deva" cannot be used in that way, as it is an existence, not a title, and the word should be used in plural to refer to all four of them instead of a mere group.
And I agree that "Four Bomber Kings" is not a fitting name, since the original word has a direct relation with Heavens, and it really should not be omitted. It was translated so many times before, so I wonder why those things happen with proper translations things that, in theory, should be well-versed in Japanese culture.
...yeah, yeah, I'm a sucker to these kinds of thing. XD
Okay, Four Bomber Devas, but what is the difference between that and Heavenly Kings? For some reason, everywhere I go to translate "四天王", I get "The Four Devas" and "The Big Four" but absolutely no "Four Heavenly Kings", yet places like Wikipedia only say "Four Heavenly Kings". What do you mean by official translation?
In any case, you can't just say "Four Heavenly Bombers" because that could mean anything, it could mean angels or such. "Four Heavenly King Bombers" would be more accurate, wouldn't it?
No, Four Heavenly Bomber Kings at best. In context, Four Heavenly Kings is already a estabilished name, so I don't think there could be a misinterpretation. You see, as I said the Four Heavenly Kings protect the four quarters of the world, and as such, 'tis implied that they reign (王 OU, which means king) from the Heavens (天 TENKU, which is exactly what it says on the tin). The word "Deva" can relate to their powers, since the Devas are powerful non-human beings, but this definition is exclusive to Buddhism, while in Hinduism they are deities, and while it may sound similar, it is not the same thing, as in Buddhism it has to do with Bodhisattvas and Maitreya.
In any case, Google Translator and a few others translate 四天王 as Four Heavenly Kings, as do my dictionaries.
It's quite simple when broken down, this is how I read it based on my knowledge.
shi = four.
ten = heaven. (ten = short for tengoku)
ou = king.
The extra 'n' doesn't seem to matter, try typing 'てん' in jp and you see that it only equals 1 'n' character. When I type in japanese, I merely press the '-/+' key and then backspace to make the 'ん' character- I normally use this method when there isn't anything after the character.
Though if it's looked at as if the extra 'n' did matter, then that would turn the word ou(king)- into nou(brain).
Last edited by Razon on Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:00 pm
_________________ "Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they're not entitled to their own facts."
Well, well. Despite Zephe's claim that the original translation was very good, it seems there were two major screw ups.
Firstly they translated as "Peaceful Earth" the line "Earth was peaceful" (at least in the version I had) and secondly, they neglected to mention that the villains were after "the 1st prototype Bomberman machine".
Coupled with the cyborgs line that certainly would reinforce the idea that Bomberman is (or still was, at this point in time) a robot.
But eh, this certainly makes it difficult for later games when not only there's a whole planet of them, but even ones that are supposedly older than Shiro.
Maybe he's the first prototype of a new generation?
Furthermore, this would ulteriorly cement the fact that Earth still exists and is not forgotten at this point in the series (seeing as some of the games are SET there). Panic Bomber World and Super Bomberman 3 already suggested this, and so did Bomberman World, though in that one all we saw on Earth was a forest (which kinda made it look like it had been abandoned).
But at this point it seems evident that for the first few games on PCE and SNES, Bomberman went back and forth from Earth to the planet that would later be revealed as Planet Bomber (already in 93, before SBMAN2 we see the infamous purple moon).
A great discovery, if I may say so!
...oh and my, does the comic look crappy compared to the others. Look how plain Golem Bomber's bombs are.
...and what is up with the last page where everybody is in costume and colored differently?
Oh about Golem Bomber's profile from Fight! could it be that bad literally means bagular did not make a good job on his head/brain? And that this is perhaps why he halts in the woods? (...wait, was that in anotehr thread? Crap)
_________________ Metroid: Other M - As in "There's the good Metroid games... we chose to do one of some Other Make altogether."
Yeah, they -did- say the Fiendish Bombers were sent to capture the "original Bomberman" in the US manual, but they didn't go so far into detail.
Who knows. Personally, I just think the series is full of retcons. But you all know my stand, lol. Although hey, remember in Bomberman GB 3, Bomberman is assigned to Planet Owen. So it makes sense that Shiro and Kuro could be moving from planet to planet to base, but I guess for a whole "race" to pop up out of nowhere... >_<
About Golem Bomber, I think it probably does mean that Golem is a little slow, because of the way he talks in the cutscenes. I don't think Bagura had anything to do with it... don't think he necessarily needed to work on their heads to make them into Bombermen. Golem is a bit weird in comparison with the others I guess, he looks almost entirely robotic.
He does seem very very robotic... and also very very fat. Maybe that's what the heart monitor in his visor is for. No wonder he fell down in the forest, probably has a couple of clogged arteries. Poor guy.
I've been interested in just getting the text of the Saturn Bomberman Fight!! biographies ripped for future reference. I used SmartOCR and some close examination to get this from the manual, though there's one letter in particular that gave me hassle - SmartOCR would simply refuse to recognise it, or interpet it as something else entirely, so I just made it into ワ. Anyone know if it's right? Also, given the fact it's an OCR rip, it's probably got some letters slightly wrong by not interpreting the little extra dots or whatever. I DID MY BEST YOU GUYS :{
From what I gather Ruisha's a princess and she wanted to accomplish something for herself rather than lead a sheltered life, so she entered the competition. I guess. Google Translate (and two other automatic translators) do not make for an accurate source.
It does give Ruisha's full name though - Reuishia Lalu Hebunkeru (レウィシア・ラル・ヘブンケール). I'm now wondering if Ruisha is meant to be Lucia Lar Hevunkel, or something. Of all the characters to not have an officially romanised name...!
Er, where you put ワ, it is in fact supposed to be り. It's just written in a different style. Aside from that, there were only about 2-3 other errors. Here's the revised version:
Neat and clean, she is a princess. She becomes close friends with Mami.
Born a princess in a certain country (real name Reuishia・Raru・
Hebunkeeru), she led a life which was not uncomfortable. However, she was discontent that she had not done anything on her own in life. Seeing a broadcast of the tournament, she snuck out of the castle to face the tournament. "Father, I am sorry, but I must go to the tournament no matter what." The girl who has led a sheltered life began her first adventure. [There are a couple more sentences, but I'm not sure what they mean - seems to mention the royal family's cash card though]
I screenshotted all the dialogue from Panic Bomber W, though SmartOCR absolutely refuses to recognise any of the text, so my attempt at translating is the long and tedious method of looking at the game, then the alphabet and slooowly stringing it together. I found out that Urin likes pineapples! I'm still very curious about what's the deal with Baguro; I think the PC Engine Panic Bomber is his first appearance but I haven't played that one extensively yet.
Also, something more exciting!
I'll try and get them scanned pretty soon, though they're all over a hundred pages (the middle one is nearly two hundred) so it's going to be a long list of pages! The middle book covers Super Bomberman 1 to 3, Bomberman GB 1 and 2, and Panic Bomber W.
I think that the World Bombers are brainwashed by Space Bomber. There was a time when I started to translate the text, but the dialouge got me confused. Now that you've got everything so conveniently laid out, I might just take another shot at it...
Also, yay! The guides came!! Over a hundred pages?! That is freaking awesome! Although, a lot of work... but hey, I don't know how I'd feel if there was no more old Bomberman stuff to tranlsate anyway.
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