Perhaps, but what could've they done instead that wasn't done before? I think the only original thing left they can do is make it so Wily wasn't actually the villain (that would be a real surprise lol).


Assuming Sigma knew how, he could just reprogram them to be your average robots that would obey his whim. That would be the way that would make the most sense.


Okay, I can deal with this explanation (even though you can tell this is something they made up much later and decided to use that as a explanation). Although I'm still not sure why making a dozen sets of armor for X to use was really necessary. But whateves, that's a question that will never be answered.


You would think one could customize their characters in a MMO game. The game would be really boring if everyone could play with the characters in the exact same way. All of this is assuming the game is ever released worldwide.


I understand what you're getting at here. I think that they were really expecting Powered Up and Maverick Hunter X to sell well enough to remake at least the first three games for the Maverick Hunter X series (and perhaps the first six-seven Mega Man games), since Mega Man is a popular franchise. That's probably why they altered those kind of things in the game, probably to make the game more interesting for both the developers to work with and for the players to, well, play. Even though the player is playing more or less the same game, it's a different take of that same game.

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But if they're average robots, wouldn't that mean they're destroyed even easier than the real Sigma? Then that would make them kinda worthless and Sigma would lose all of his bodies...


I never recall them specifically linking the two together, so that's just some thinking on the fan's part. (Just like how I thought of a possible excuse to cover up this one little hole (Unimportant really) in MGS regarding Para-Medic)

Then again, I don't pay much attention to the manuels or whatever in these games, or any real info coming from Capcom themselves so I dunno if they actually said that or not.


Gameplay thing. Not something you can find a real logical reason. Take that away and you take away some gameplay. This is a game, so its gameplay is obviously more important.

The only real thing that separates Reploids from robots is that Reploids can think for themselves while robots just do as they are programmed. If Sigma just had his spare bodies reprogrammed to be more like typical robots, they would still be as strong as the body was designed. It wouldn't be rebuilding them from scratch, it'd be messing with their brains to have them function more like typical robots.


Duke Serkol just mentioned how this was explained in one of the official guidebooks for the games. So it's an official explanation, albeit not one that is mentioned in the games, not just what a fan made up for it to make sense.


I realize that's why they do it, but from a story point of view it's just a little absurd. In the first game, having it be hidden pieces of armor made sense, but why continue to do that when X already has a full set of armor? Why not just upgrade the regular armor for the new features of each piece of armor, instead of making an entirely new suit of armor that essentially replaced the one before (X5 and 6 were exceptions to this rule, since they had 2-3 different armors you could use in the game, but it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense either)? X8 kind of had an armor system that I thought made more sense (it's the same suit of armor, but you can mix and match each of the armor utilities you had to make your own "armor" that best suited you, or make the original sets as intended for a more powerful set).

Honestly though, I haven't really been thinking too deeply about a lot of this stuff until Duke and I started to friendlily debate on the matter.

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Well, for one thing, Megaman 10's subtitle in Japan is "The menace from outer space!"
Seeing as Dr.Wily has had spacestations before as his castles, I don't think that alone explains the subtitle... so I suspect the roboenza virus originates from outer space (a derivate of the evil energy from MM8 perhaps?). I would have liked them to capitalize on that rather than have the whole "Wily is innocent this time... oh wait he's not! Again!". Perhaps draw a connection to the Zero virus (I think it's actually been stated that the Maverick Virus originated from space... outside of games, of course v_v)... and seeing as this is MM10 and there's a certain sense of finality to it (fighting bosses from all 9 previous games) how about having the Megaman VS Zero fight already? I'm not even one of those guys that want to see Megaman and all the rest of the cast die, just have them fight to a tie then Zero malfunctions and needs to be put in a capsule.

Or hey... how about finally telling us what became of Quint Capcom??
>_<


Definitely later than X1 yeah. Wouldn't really know when though, if already by X5 or only with Zero3.


Actually that's easily answered. The armors wear down (I'm sure you're not using a computer with parts made ten years ago right? And your PC hasn't been through battle either, not counting flamewars). Therefore X has to throw them away and Light keeps making better ones because he cares.
It is only by X5 that someone (Alia) comes along who's able to fix/replicate X's armors.
Rather I've always wondered about copied weapons...


It's not that simple, you can't reprogram an Amiga into performing like a modern day Mac. Reploids are made ina fundamentally different way than robots, it's not just programming. And trying to make a machine capable of thinking for itself work like one that isn't doesn't sound like a very good plan... but yeah, you could just as well put a regular robot brain into a Sigma body I suppose.
Even so, Capcom has a habit of making science cry (Reploid DNA anyone?) and they have this fixation on reploid spirits being a determining factor in how strong a reploid is (especially in the Zero series with the copies of X and Zero not being up to their originals) so yeah... it'd end up exactly like with the Copy Reploids when they all copied Sigma's body in the last stage of X8. They are not Sigma inside so they are not as powerful. It's CapcomScience.


Well the thing is, the explanation for cyberspace came from the Zero series and its guidebooks. I'm not sure if it was officially connected to those events in the X series, but seeing as it is now an official and fundamental aspect of Megaman's world it seems to be the most reasonable explanation for analogue phenomenons (Cyber Elf X/Cyberspace Phantom = Dr. Light, Omega causing CyberSpace to breach reality = Zero/Sigma Virus breaching reality)

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Metroid: Other M - As in "There's the good Metroid games... we chose to do one of some Other Make altogether."

Guess you know more about the franchise then I do. lol I didn't know that the Maverick Virus apparently came from outer space or any of that stuff. Also, I always interpreted the Zero Virus as Wily's evil programing. Perhaps Wily "perfected" replicating Mega Man technology, maybe too much so, and rather then fixing the root of Mega Man's goodheartedness and going through presumably millions of lines of code, Wily took the easy way out and created additional programming that kept Zero in check and did as he was ordered. This additional coding presumably also affected Zero's true potential as well.

Also, if Zero did go and fight Mega Man with his "true power," it'd probably end with Mega Man getting his ass handed to him on a silver platter. I mean, X was barely able to defeat Zero with that power, and we know X is more powerful then Mega Man. Heck, even Sigma, one of the most powerful Maverick Hunters at the time, only beat true Zero by the skin of his teeth.


I guess I can accept that. Although I still think Light could very easily just fix the armor up and upgrade it as he saw fit. He is, after all, a legendary unmatched robotics scientist.

As for copy weapons, maybe they store the data they observed while fighting unto their processors and just replicate them to the best of their abilities? With the exception of Metal Blade, most of the weapons are watered down or equal versions of each Robot Master/Maverick's "main" weapon (with Metal Blade just being the "king of copy weapons"). And with this explanation, perhaps keeping the data of each and every weapon that has been acquired would just be too much for Mega Man/X's processor? I'm sure even X's CPU has a limited storage space, and Mega Man is even more simplistic compared to X.


Perhaps you can't make an old computer function like a new one, but whose to say that you can't make a new free-willed robot into an perfectly controlled and obedient one with no free-will?
So I guess if one's "sense of justice" is strong enough, they can defeat even the most powerful robot? Silly Capcom. lol


If the Classic/X/Zero series are all connected like Capcom says, then it isn't far-fetched to believe if one applies in this series, it works in the other series as well. That's all I'm saying.

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All one ever needs is Hard work and Guts! Who the hell do you think these guys are?!?!

This is quite a debate going on here. It's been fun to read. I can almost picture the two of your online persona standing at a podium addressing a small audience in a conference room.

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It's been revealed only recently, with the release of Megaman Zero Collection on DS.


Sigma apparently was infected while fighting Zero, meaning the Zero virus existed as such (a virus) before the Sigma one. I believe according to X5 it actually is its "purified" form.
There was some mishap concerning Zero and the virus on Wily's part (something did not go as he had planned) but we don't know exactly what. Either way, Zero was clearly designed to function together with the virus as he reacts positively to it unlike any reploids.
Interestingly, in the oncoming Online game Duo will be immune to the virus which again seems to indicate the virus as originated from the evil energy of MM8.


X and Zero are both more advanced than Megaman was. He was the same (from a technological standpoint) as the robot masters, so the closest you get to having a Wily made Megaman would be Bass or MMShadow.
According to Protoman in Megaman & Bass, the only thing that allows him to keep winning time and time again is that he doesn't fight for selfish reasons but to protect others. This, naturally, is another instance of CapcomScience.
I would imagine one of the virus' original purposes was to keep Zero (a free willed robot like X) under Wily's control.


Even CapcomScience has its limits, is that what you mean to say? Well, suppose Zero was yet to be completed or that Megaman, Protoman and Bass (+CapcomScience) all ganged up on him. How about that?


Not quite. The enemy robot/reploids needs to be taken apart first. In the first Megaman you would phisically collect parts of the destroyed enemy. Later on, particles have been shown to be gathered after the explosion. Eventually, with later X games, it was revealed that X copies enemies weapons by acquiring Reploid DNA (eugh...), the same thing Axl uses to change into other reploids (Axl was made by Sigma and Red Alert after obtaining and finally making sense of X's data, so Axl and the Copy Reploids are essentially a further development of X's copy technology)

...good God I need a life.


That could explain it yes... still you'd expect them to do the smart thing like Megaman in Disgruntled Ferret's webcomic and make copies of the weapon data so they can dig up the most useful ones before going on a mission  


I imagine that would be kind of like a James Bond villain trying to make himself reliable slaves by hypnotizing/lobotomizing exceptionally strong people. Better hope everything works exactly as planned...


Yeah that pretty much sums it up.
Sigma had a lot of trouble accepting this, especially in X8 ("You couldn't!")


Exactly, yes.


Vote Serkol 20XX!

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Metroid: Other M - As in "There's the good Metroid games... we chose to do one of some Other Make altogether."

That would explain it. The only progress I made in the Zero series was not quite finishing the first game. Maybe I'll check that Zero Collection, I thought the first game had some kind of neat ideas.


In that case, perhaps the "Zero Virus" was a sample of Evil Energy that Wily kept hidden, experimenting on it until he could find a use for it?


I believe that Zero was possibly Wily's "next step up" from Bass as X was Light's "next step up" from Mega Man. Or perhaps Wily managed to snag some blueprints from Light regarding X, and made his own "X" from scratch? And instead of waiting 30 years to open him like Light did with X, wily was much too eager to use it and infected Zero with Evil Energy.


I still think Zero would beat them all without too much problem. Zero is Wily's most powerful creation, and he's more then capable of doing them in. I think the result of Zero awakening would be similar to the Cataclysm mentioned in the Bob and George comic.


I stand corrected, then.


I suppose that would be a good idea. lol I guess Mega Man/X believed that they would not need them anymore after their final battle with Wily/Sigma.


Well, like I said, if someone were to reprogram or even flat out replace the Reploid's brain into more of a robotic one that follows set rules and patterns, they can't exactly rebel now, can they?  


"Justice and love shall always win!"


 

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Oh it wasn't not revealed in the game but in an official statement when the game was released, which was conveniently only a short while after MM10 came out.
And if you didn't get very far because of how hard the first Zero game was, then you can certainly benefit from the collection as an easy mode of sorts was added to it (it gives you everything from the start. Some people actually say it's nearly "press button to win" easy)


If by experimenting you mean "finding some way to turn it into a computer virus or make one out of it", I'm sold.


It's hard to tell really. It's possible Light and Wily came onto the same breakthrough at the same time (this has happened in the real world without the people involved even knowing one another). Furthermore, it's possible X and Zero were based on the technology of Duo and his nemesis, the space robot that carried Evil Energy within itself.
Or it could be Wily acquired the knowledge to make Zero either by, yes, stealing Light's blue prints or perhaps from the future when he used the time skimmer (yeah that was long before the end of the series, but retro enginering ain't easy).
I would rate the blueprints idea the lowest since Light supposedly only started working on X after Power Battles, which is after bass stole blueprints in MM7 (those were probably just for the Super Adaptor).
And shortly thereafter we have MM8 and Power Fighters at the end of which we know Wily has started Zero and some "other project". So yeah, my money's on the space robots inspiration.


But Zero was left in a capsule too for some reason. Some people speculate that Wily simply wants Zero to destroy Light's masterpiece, X, and therefore left him in a capsule specifically to wake up when X did. Others presume there was some problem with the virus that made this necessary.


Okay, then let's throw Duo in as well to fulfill his promise to come by again. That ought to be enough  


I once discussed the sanity of imprisoning Omega on an orbiting spaceship rather than either just destroying him or sending him into deep space never to return. I was told: Hey, it's "Let's all hold hands!" X, did you really expect him to kill a subdued prisoner (albeit dangerously crazy)?


And as I said replacing the brain would work. Just programming it to act like a robot... I'd keep my fingers crossed. Even while asleep.
Either way CapcomScience makes it pointless as demonstrated by the CopyReploids.

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Metroid: Other M - As in "There's the good Metroid games... we chose to do one of some Other Make altogether."

I found the first game to be pretty difficult, but I did get pretty far in the game (I got somewhere in X's base). I don't wish to play an easier difficulty of the game if it's really that easy though. I'd feel no accomplishment in doing so.


If that was how Wily made use of the Evil Energy, then sure.


Inspiration seems the most likely, but Wily has been known to stoop to low levels to get what he wants. He'll do anything to defeat his archnemesis. So stealing Light's ideas and making his own version is also a strong possibility, I think.


The first seemed to be strongly implied, as Wily appeared before Zero in his dream in X4. I believe he said something along the lines of how defeating his nemesis was one of his biggest motivations in life and he then ordered Zero to destroy him.


Now you're just talking crazy.  


Again, I didn't get too far into the Zero series, so I can't really comment.


In the end, I guess so. As long as the "Justice and love shall always win" ideology lives, anything Sigma (or whoever the villain would be) would do is pointless in the end.

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Just fanon really, but I like it.


Yeah that's what originated the theory.


Am I? They are putting copies of him in an X game.
Seriously an entire army of Duos fighting besides copies of X and Zero as equals. How does the original Duo taking on the original Zero come off as crazy after that?

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Metroid: Other M - As in "There's the good Metroid games... we chose to do one of some Other Make altogether."

It's more so the thought of Duo somehow returning just in time to help defeat Zero by pure coincidence is just crazy, not the idea of Duo being about equal to X and Zero.

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Not as crazy as Duo retuning to take part in a car race. And that happened.
Furthermore Duo already returned once, in Power Fighters, claiming to have sensed some leftover evil energy.
If there is a connection between that and the Zero Virus...

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Metroid: Other M - As in "There's the good Metroid games... we chose to do one of some Other Make altogether."

That may be looking too much into it. Considering how Mega Man is definately more so about the gameplay, then that was more so intended to make Duo playable. The "sensing evil energy" looks more like an excuse to add him in there. It may not have any connection at all, or at least, any intended connection.

Either way, I never played as Duo as I didn't like him that much :P

Power Fighter is, out of all classic Megaman games, the one that displayed connections to the X series the most blatantly. There's a freaking picture of Zero in it and Wily states clearly that he's also working on another project (most likely to be the virus).
So any arguments that "it does not do plot", pretty much fall on their faces.

Futhermore there's plenty other bits of evidence that seem to indicate a connection between the virus and evil energy. I've already pointed out several in this thread (their effects, appearence, origin...).

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Metroid: Other M - As in "There's the good Metroid games... we chose to do one of some Other Make altogether."

I think what DarkFire was trying to say was that Duo's return in Power Fighters was probably more so just to have him as an additional playable character, and possibly adding in some more plot in the franchise was just an additional bonus (which, IMO, is pretty spot on). He isn't wrong when he says that the games aren't really plot orientated (I actually agree that the Mega Man franchise is generally gameplay first, story a distinct second). You even said yourself how simple the stories in the original games are.

You also have to keep in mind that Power Battles/Fighters were originally Japanese exclusive arcade games until they saw a release as unlockable games in Mega Man Anniversary collection. With that (and what kind of games they are) in mind, I'm not sure if the events that occurred in Power Fighters and Battles should even be considered canon.

Not that I necessarily disagree with the possibility that Zero is connected to the Evil Energy in some way. I'm just saying.

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It could be, but is it probable? I wouldn't say that, not when in the very same game Wily shows us Zero's schematics and says he has another project to go along with it. Not when the maverick virus is revealed to have come from space.


So to sum up what you just said, you're suggesting that the most plot heavy games in a Japanese franchise that is otherwise light on plot should not be considered canon... because they were initially only available in Japan?
Apart from the fact that Power Battles was distributed in the west as an arcade game, that is a pretty self centered opinion for us to stand by ("If them Japanese did not let us play it, then it doesn't exist"). Nor is the fact that their gameplay's different a valid reason to discount them as non-canon. That'd be like saying that Zelda 2 is not canon because it was viewed from the side and had experience points. Or that Four Sword Adventures is not canon because it is too linear and multiplayer oriented.

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Metroid: Other M - As in "There's the good Metroid games... we chose to do one of some Other Make altogether."

It's a Mega Man fighting game. I'm pretty sure the only reason Duo was put in was 1) to promote Mega Man 8, and 2) to add an additional playable character in the game. Because of the nature of the game, he really didn't need to make an appearance in the game. He was thrown in to add more spice to the original game's formula and separate the sequel from the original more easily.


Not what I said. I personally don't think a Mega Man fighting game should be considered canon, or it should at least be taken very lightly. I sure wouldn't take these game's plots very seriously, as the games didn't even have a real plot as far as I know. It's just an even more basic and watered down version of "Wily's up to no good again, stop him". Really, the only thing that's revealed in these games is that Zero was made by Wily (although it was hinted at in X4 and X5 covered this in greater detail) and he brought up this "secret project" (and this is just incredibly vague and, as far as we know, it could have just been hinting at a new Mega Man game altogether). And it's just featured in Bass's ending in the second game to boot. So I'm not really following with just how "plot heavy" these games are.

Also, regarding my comment of them being Japanese exclusive, the game was clearly made to cater to their fanbase, which is largely in Japan. Let's face it, Power Fighters/Battle was a fan service game in just about every sense of the term. They are games that were made pretty much exclusively with their fans in mind, and I doubt a lot of non fans would've played this.


This comparison doesn't really work because, as far as I know, none of the Zelda games are connected in any way besides sharing characters, themes, and settings. So, in a sense, there is no real canon in the Zelda franchise (I hear people have tried making a timeline to connect the games and make sense of it, but it's just a huge mess. And I'm pretty sure Nintendo even said "he's not the same Link", which further nulls any possibility of the games being connected).

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Yes, however none of that necessarily implies his story to be inconsequential.


Different game mechanics do not equate to non canon. And though the game may start out with only as much plot as Megaman 2 did, the multiple endings are much more elaborate than nearly anything else we had in the classic series.


Firstly, this was the first time Protoman and Bass took a really active role in opposing Wily. That, in and of its own, is a significant plot development, especially since Bass was made by Wily. Secondly, you did not mention several important things. Megaman's ending in Power Battles shows us the moment Light realizes he needs to create a robot capable of making its own decisions. Protoman's Ending in Power Fighters reveals he has a fatal flaw that will eventually kill him. And of course, the fact that Duo can sense evil energy from deep space, which we cannot discount as non-canon just because his presence in the game could only be a way to promote MM8 (don't get me wrong, it totally was meant to do that, but as said before it doesn't necessarily have to be only for that and make his story rubbish by default)
Finally, considering that, as you point out, X4 had already revealed a connection between Zero and Wily as well as the Maverick Virus, believing that Wily's other project brought up in the same speech ha makes about Zero is anything but the virus seems excessive caution to me.
All the more so when in Power Battles Wily only decides (like Light decides to make a self determined robot) to make a stronger robot to defeat both Megaman and Bass, whereas in this one, the game with space robot Duo coming back to hunt for Evil Energy, he now has blueprints and also brings up this other project.


And that makes it somehow non-canon? Because it was aimed at the only people that actually care about canon in the first place?


Ok, I'm sorry to say but you clearly don't know enough of the subject matter here. It's not that you are obliged to of course, but you can't shoot down my parallel there without that knowledge.
The Zelda series works like this: every one or two games Nintendo makes a new Link that lives in the same world but in a different age than the previous ones. Early games in the series had very loose connections and this is why there's all that timeline theorizing going on. The 3D games, on the other hand, have clear and definite ties to one another. Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess and The Wind Waker all are tied back to the events of Ocarina of Time, whereas Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks tie in with those of The Wind Waker.
All these connections are set in stone, even though the only games out of those that feature the same Link are respectively Ocarina of Time-Majora's Mask and The Wind Waker-Phantom Hourlgass. Similarly Adventure of Link continues the story of the first Link we've known from where the original Legend of Zelda on NES had left it.
So yeah, Zelda canon is a reality and Nintendo has confirmed several times that they have some big complex document to keep track of it. They apparently prefer to keep it for themselves because they realize a lot of fans continue to be interested in the games also (if not mostly) because they can nerd out over whether Ocarina of Time is still the "Seal War" of A Link to the Past's backstory or not.

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I dunno Duke Serkol, you're pushing all this stuff so much that it sounds to me like every Megaman related thing put out by Capcom HAS to be canon no matter what, in your mindset. Like there's just no possible way that it couldn't be in the slightest despite any possible argument.

I suppose you'd like to inform us all about the great significance of Megaman Soccer and Megaman Battle and Chase as well?

Sometimes companies do make something as a spin off or just for fan service with no original intent of having it canon. Perhaps after the fact they come up with ways to link it together be it for fun or just trying to please people like you amongst the fan base, but it's very possible that somebody at Capcom just said one day, "Hey! Wouldn't Rockman fans just love a Rockman fighting game? Let's make one. Throw in lots of characters! Let's make Protoman Bass etc. playable. It'll make us a lot of money!" and they may have come up with an interesting story for it but was it really intended to be connected? It seems like it was all connected as an afterthought to me.

I dunno, that's just my opinion. As for what I personally believe, as much as I enjoyed the stories of some of the games, particularly some of the X games It's just such a mess between bringing this guy back for this reason and whatever else may happen that doesn't seem to make any sense I just don't really care anymore. I like mega man games cause they are fun to play, have great music and cool looking characters. I'm not too worried about where this complex, plot hole patched, story is going, as long as it still delivers on the other fronts.

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to dismiss your opinion or anything here. You've provided a great argument but I don't think continuing this discussion is really gonna do much else for us...

If I'm wrong then whatevs. Feel free to continue but I've been watching you guys go back and forth for awhile now and it just seems like you've hit a dead end. Neither of you seem like you're gonna budge.

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